Tim,--totally sorry that I was one of the people bugging you :(.I think this points to the fact that KEP reviews in the SIGs aren't scaling. We need to broaden/improve the process so that we both track how KEPs are processing through SIGs and get a bigger pool so that they move faster.In the case of the KEP that I'm interested in, it's been open and being semi-reviewed for some time now (months) but w/o the deadline there's no urgency on the part of the SIGs to review it, and thus little velocity.
So we need some way to ensure velocity, without forcing emergencies with deadlines...Anyway, apologies again for being one of the people who bug you...--brendan
On Wednesday, May 1, 2019 at 8:00:00 AM UTC-7, Davanum Srinivas wrote:This sucks big time!!! :(On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 10:55 AM 'Tim Hockin' via kubernetes-sig-release <kubernetes-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:My dearest sig-release heroes and heroines, can I bend your ears for
just a second?
I know the deadlines are there to try to get better releases. In
practice, here's what I am seeing:
For a month there's a steady trickle of KEPs. We go back and forth on
them, they get priority whenever people can get to them.
Then 3-4 days before the KEP deadline, I start getting pings. Email,
github, slack, hangouts, twitter. I do my best to get to them but I
have other work to do and I have a life and family, so I am not really
responding all day Saturday and Sunday.
Then, the day before the deadline, my pocket is buzzing NON-STOP. I
am furiously reviewing KEPs, still finding problems and having
questions. Now I feel bad -- if they miss the boat because of me that
will be awful. So I am in a virtual panic all day long. I am trying
to make it down the queue, but some of these are big, and some require
careful reading.
I have reviewed some of these KEPs 3 times _today_. It's not
reasonable to assume anyone can do this. The faster I go, the more I
miss.
How do we break the slide-it-under-the-door-before-8am thing going on here?
The fact that I am raising this many concerns this late in the game
says to me that something is wrong. For every 1 KEP I review there
are 3-4 other I don't. We have a great pool of reviewers, but this...
this is exhausting. I have done almost nothing else all day and for
the past few days.
Tim
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First of all, I want to say thank you (and sorry) to folks who have been diligently reviewing/approving KEPs!
From my experience being a SIG Chair/TL, I struggle a lot with knowing when I am in a position to approve a KEP. If I’m a SIG TL but not an API/code approver, can I still approve KEPs that will eventually require approval from the appropriate API approvers? I’m not sure..... as much as I want the context/expertise, the reality is that it's safer to lean on the experience/expertise of a veteran like Tim Hockin. The best I can do is shadow the existing API approvers for now, but until I become an API approver myself, I will likely defer to the current API approvers for KEPs.
Maybe one of the problems is not needing more KEP approvers, but more API approvers. In which case it seems like we are actively working on that already.
Hope my perspective helps!
- Andrew Sy Kim
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I have proposed before, half jokingly, that sig-arch do a
turbo-readthrough of every KEP (yes, *every*) and decide "do we care?"
and "who from sig-arch is going to act as arch reviewer". I would
personally find it useful to boil KEPs down to 2-3 sentences so I'd
know which ones I intend to track, rather than getting looped in at
the last second.
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What a great conversation we need to have.I like what Clayton had to say about thinking things through. K8s isn't a startup project trying to get off the ground any longer. The features people MUST have to run large scale things for a huge set of cases are there. Now we can think through what we do next and who/how it impacts the things.I also appreciate the problem Tim ran into. Waiting till the last minute minds me of people in school waiting till the last minute on a project and running to their teacher at office hours with questions.Some ideas....
- Ask SIGs to do regular KEP triage. Some of them do issue triage. KEP triage would be useful, too If it's a regular activity it may spread the load over the course of the release cycle
- I wonder if a KEP triage role could exist for some SIGs. Someone to look at
- It would be great to have a project board tracking KEP changes/PRs in flight. A simple filter by SIG could provide a board to show/discuss in a meeting
- How about a KEP tracking board that tracks the progress of the ones we want implementable/implemented in a release. I thought we had one but I couldn't find it. This might get SIGs (like SIG Arch) to know which subset to focus on first.
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